For many of us, N R Narayana Murthy symbolises what good education coupled with good middle-class values can achieve. Infosys, the company Murthy built, is now 25 years old and is a name synonymous with resurgent India. He has achieved what he had set out to achieve. So, what next? CNN-IBN’s Anuradha SenGupta finds out in an interview with the visionary entrepreneur.
Anuradha SenGupta: What has life been like since you took up a role which, to quote you, was "to add value in a different dimension"?
N R Narayana Murthy: Well, because I go and connect with academics, corporate leaders and give talks in various conferences, I add value to the company in raising its brand equity and connecting it with prospects.
Anuradha SenGupta: You are the best brand ambassador that Infosys has had in its 25 years. Isn't it?
N R Narayana Murthy: I wouldn't say that. I think Nandan has done a good job and so have others.
Anuradha SenGupta: If you talk about any brand that Shah Rukh Khan endorses, his image emerges with that brand. Infosys has your image likewise. So that makes you a brand ambassador. Doesn't it?
N R Narayana Murthy: All of us are together in different dimensions. Each one of us contributes, perhaps, in a significant manner. But at the end of the day, Infosys brand is the sum total of all of these.
Anuradha SenGupta: If one were to say that conceptualising and taking Infosys to a certain level has been Volume One in Narayana Murthy's life, what would Volume Two be?
N R Narayana Murthy: Volume Two perhaps would be me spending more time reading, spending more time in activities that would involve primarily me. But, of course, I will continue to be the Executive Chairman of Infosys.
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Anuradha SenGupta: What is the one big concern that you have for the Indian society, not to mention India as a country, and the way it is run?
N R Narayana Murthy: As a person who travels quite a lot outside India, I do see a stark difference and I also feel that given all the potential that India has, we could do things better and faster.
Anuradha SenGupta: You are sounding calm now, but I am beginning to perceive you as an angry old man. Are you angry?
N R Narayana Murthy: I am not angry. I am an old man in a hurry, frankly. In Infosys too, all my deadlines are generally in hours. And given that I am used to that, my children also make fun of me, saying 'you should never discuss anything with father because he will go and do it quickly'.
And if you ask me, I am obviously in a hurry. I want things done very fast. Being in a large, pluralistic country, it is not always easy to make progress, particularly when we have a coalition government. I think I am learning.
Anuradha SenGupta: There are peers in your industry who do not take a stand unless made mandatory by the company, while there are people in other industries who are completely quiet. What makes you talk and ask them to do things?
N R Narayana Murthy: I look upon myself as a citizen and we are living in a democratic country. In a democratic country, any citizen can stand up and voice his or her views and that is what I am doing.
Anuradha SenGupta: I believe everybody respects what you have to say. But what about the case of Cassandra?
N R Narayana Murthy: In the corporate world, we have a belief that people should follow the value system of the company and they should be constantly reminded of it. The message has to be given on every occasion possible. Similarly, I intend to articulate things that need to be done in this country time and again. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Anuradha SenGupta: When you are a businessman, it is very hard not to be seen as some with vested interests and agendas. How did you manage to create an image of being seen as detached with all these issues?
N R Narayana Murthy: I have always insisted on a good corporate policy to maximise shareholder's value while ensuring fairness to all of the stakeholders, including our customers, our employees, our investors and the government of the society. Fairness is extremely important to all of those at Infosys.
Anuradha SenGupta: When we think of Mumbai, two-three people come to mind. Likewise, when we think of Bangalore, the first name that comes to mind is N R Narayana Murthy. Are you proud of the fact?
N R Narayana Murthy: Thank you. And yes I am proud of it. Because my parents hailed from Bangalore and I have lived a large part of my life here. I studied in Mysore, which is near Bangalore, and I am surely proud of it.
Anuradha SenGupta: Is there some other reason of you being proud?
N R Narayana Murthy: Given the fact that we have transformed Bangalore from a sleepy town to a vibrant hi-tech city in just a span of 20 years, I do think that we can go even further in our persuasion. We can do a lot more.
Anuradha SenGupta: Is there a feeling of resentment that you have towards the IT industry and what it has done to Bangalore?
N R Narayana Murthy: No. I think the new chief minister is very positive and enthusiastic about Bangalore being a better city for all the residents, including the IT people. He has been taking quick decisions and he has been meeting people. And I think there is a new sense of confidence, a new sense of bringing about confirmation definitely in Bangalore.
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Anuradha SenGupta: For someone who is aware and concerned about the fact that we live in a pluralistic society in which there are so many divides already, do you feel that the IT industry's success has also resulted in facilitating those divides?
N R Narayana Murthy: Well, it is understandable that people perceive so because our people get good salaries and a good disposable income. They wear good clothes and they buy new cars.
Anuradha SenGupta: You said, "There are people in the IT industry who, when they get into the offices, work with first world aspirations and against first world competitors. But from the moment they get out, they are back in the third world." Why do you think so?
N R Narayana Murthy: Yes, absolutely. We have this tremendous challenge. Every morning, we leave the warm embryo of our homes, we go through the traffic and see a lot of pollution and poverty. But once we enter the office in a jiffy, we are asked to transform ourselves to first world people to satisfy the demands of the most demanding customers of the first world. And then we do the reverse thing in the evening. It is a tough process that way.
Anuradha SenGupta: Was that contradiction a dichotomy contributing to the divide between the IT industry 'haves' and 'have nots', which are the rest?
N R Narayana Murthy: The reason why people perceive that IT people or the rich people who are not concerned about the poor is simply because these people get good salaries, good disposable incomes, they go to good restaurants, wear good clothes and buy cars while the majority of the country cannot afford all of that. So, it is normal that the majority in some sense resent the IT people. It is for us to conduct ourselves better and also involve ourselves in some ways of reaching out to the poor people.
Anuradha SenGupta: Is that one of the reasons that you so proactively maintain this profile?
N R Narayana Murthy: We have to increase capitalism if we have to create more jobs, if we have to solve the problem of poverty. So it is very important that those of us in the corporate world conduct ourselves in a manner ordinary and normal that people don't keep a distance from us. So I personally believe that we need to make an effort to lead a simple life.
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Anuradha SenGupta: This is something you believe in. You have two children who are studying abroad. Do they imbibe your opinion unquestionably?
N R Narayana Murthy: You know youth is when you need to experiment with new things, when you need to be open to new ideas and when you need pluralism. You become mature later on and then you can think of these things.
Anuradha SenGupta: As a young man also, you were reasonably austere. Wasn't it?
N R Narayana Murthy: I was because we were forced to be. Because we had no money. But it is not so in case of my children. But I must say by and large they are fairly austere without me imposing on them. I am fair to them. However, they have to find the value of these things themselves.
Anuradha SenGupta: We all work for small indulgences. What is your indulgence?
N R Narayana Murthy: I buy lots of CDs, VCDs and books. My father had told me that you should cultivate those habits which require less money. We spent most our times in small towns in Karnataka. We would go to a park and listen to film songs in the radio in the evenings and that surely did not cost us any money.
Anuradha SenGupta: Now that you have money, what are your indulgences?
N R Narayana Murthy: I buy a lot of technology gadgets. I have the latest iPod, the latest telephone and I replace my laptop once in three months.
Anuradha SenGupta: It is nice to know that you have some indulgences. Otherwise, you become too tough a role model. Isn't it?
N R Narayana Murthy: Yes, I do. In fact, we have a competition between my colleagues -- Kris, Shibu -- and me as to who has the latest and the modern gadget.
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Anuradha SenGupta: What do you usually read?
N R Narayana Murthy: Unfortunately, I enjoy reading books on mathematics, physics and a little bit of computer science, but not much.
Anuradha SenGupta: Have there been books which have influenced you to be who you are today?
N R Narayana Murthy: I think very clearly the Feynman Lectures in physics was a powerful influence and I have always liked them. History Of Mathematics has also been a very powerful influence for me.
Anuradha SenGupta: What about all the wonderful fiction? Do you read fiction?
N R Narayana Murthy: I do not read fiction at all.
Anuradha SenGupta: How many of Sudha Murthy's books have you read? She is also considered a prolific writer.
N R Narayana Murthy: I have actually read all the three English books, Wise And Otherwise, How I Taught My Grandmother To Read and Old Man And The Godand I have read two or three of her Kannada books.
Anuradha SenGupta: Corporate leaders writing books have been more like a norm. Have you ever considered writing yourself?
N R Narayana Murthy: I have received many offers and many famous authors and agents have approached us at Infosys. But we have declined the offers. All of us are very reticent about talking about ourselves -- in other words, talking about Infosys in personal terms.
Anuradha SenGupta: The power of the media has been harnessed in Infosys though. Isn't it?
N R Narayana Murthy: Yes we have. In fact, we also did a media training because as I said it is all a part of our job at the end of the day.
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Anuradha SenGupta: Were there any ‘don’ts’ that you were made to follow in the training?
N R Narayana Murthy: No. In fact we all sat down and decided that we don’t say anything negative about any of our competitors. Secondly, we glorify Infosys as an organisation but we all maintain a low profile. And thirdly, we do not disseminate any information which is not validated and substantiated by data.
Anuradha SenGupta:On October, 2005, Murthy quit as Chairman of Bangalore International Airport.
Reason 1- Former PM and JDS Leader HD Deve Gowda charged him with the fact that in five years' time he had done nothing to make the airport 'a reality'.
Reason 2-The then Karnataka government had not defined his role as a Chairman and the work done.
Reason 3- Deve Gowda also charged him that Infosys was allotted government land and had given back little in return.
There is one set of people who saluted you for the fact that you did not back off from your position and that you did not take anything politicians were handing out to you. Instead you resigned from the Bangalore International Airport sector. And, on the other hand, there was an opinion voiced by the young people that you sent out a wrong signal by resigning.
N R Narayana Murthy: I have a lot of respect and admiration for the youngsters and in some way, I feel that they could be right. But my case was that I was expecting the Chief Minister to give out the data on whether I had some work or not. And when he did not do that, I felt let down. It was, in fact, an emotional decision. My personal view on this is that you can add value significantly in a concrete manner to anything only if you have the goodwill towards the people who have the power.
Since I had a feeling that I would not receive the support of the authorities, I think perhaps that delayed the whole project. That's the reason why I resigned.
Anuradha SenGupta: Are you saying that there is no place for people like you and people like us in politics?
N R Narayana Murthy: No, I wouldn't say that. All that I said was my competence is limited in working with a large group of enlightened youngsters and I perhaps do a better and decent job in Infosys, which is democratic. But in the real world of today's India, which has multiple divides, I could not do very well.
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Anuradha SenGupta: Are you giving up? That was not the sense that we got when you started articulating your concerns, your sense of urgency about how things are around you.
N R Narayana Murthy: No, I do not say that I have given up. I only say that I know my place. I would continue to articulate issues that are of great importance to me that I am very passionate about. And similarly, if I am asked to add value in some significant way in an area where I feel competent, I shall certainly do that. But I am not going to think that I can do things on a much larger canvas.
Anuradha SenGupta: Did you think of that earlier? Is it a question of once bitten twice shy?
N R Narayana Murthy: No, I have had many offers and requests to participate in the 'government' in various capacities, but I have always refused because I know that it's not my strength.
Anuradha SenGupta: While you have painstakingly pointed out that you may not be temperamentally suited to public life, if at all there was something you could do with your skills and experience , do you consider an ambassadorial role?
N R Narayana Murthy: No, I actually did not suggest that. It was only suggested by a wonderful journalist friend of mine. And I think that it is all in the realm of conjectures.
Anuradha SenGupta: Do you like the thought though?
N R Narayana Murthy: Whether I like the thought or not, it is really a relevant question. What is important is: Am I happy doing what I am doing? The answer is yes, I am happy doing what I am doing. And I want to continue doing what I am doing. Yes, I want to continue to do what I was doing.
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Anuradha SenGupta: I have introduced the interview by saying that Infosys, the company that Narayana Murthy built, is going 'from strength to strength'. Where is Mr Narayana Murthy going? Besides, you are at the crossroads. Aren't you? And you have to write volume two.
N R Narayana Murthy: No, I don’t think there would be any volume two. Simply because once I retire from Infosys, it is difficult to find some thing which is as passionate as Infosys. Because I have lived, breathed this activity all my life. Infosys has been like a middle child for me. My children were born in the years 1980, 1981 and 1983 and Infosys came in between.
It would look awkward if a 60-year-old man had a child. I think that while I occupy myself with a series of small initiatives. I do not think that it will be a big-ticket item like Infosys in my life. I am building a home office near my place, which I can walk to, and I will continue my preoccupation with the various boards, various universities in India and outside and I suppose I will be as busy as I have been.
Anuradha SenGupta: Are you looking forward to it?
N R Narayana Murthy: If you mean am I looking forward to leaving Infosys? Not really. Am I looking forward to not coming every day to Infosys? No, I am not, even though I wish I could come every day. But then, this is a rule that we have decided upon. All of us to retire at the age of 60 and having made the rule, I don't think that I should not abide to it.
It will, however, be difficult to be away from the bustle of activities that take place at Infosys and also from being away from the youngsters. But this a fact of life.
Anuradha SenGupta: Mr Murthy, we wish you all the very best and we hope that you remain the angry old man and lead us by example.
N R Narayana Murthy: You are very kind and I can assure you that I am not angry. I am an old man all right, and there is no doubt that as there is data, there are facts and even your channel is capturing that. But did I sound angry?
Anuradha SenGupta: No, you did not sound angry. But in the past, you have sounded angry and that is an anger that we look forward to being displayed. Because it instills a sense of concern. It is a mirror image of a leader.
N R Narayana Murthy:: You know anger always arises out of helplessness. If you are in charge of things and if you can correct a situation and if you can do what is required of you, you will never be angry. Also, on the other hand, if you are not in a position to do nothing about anything, normally that's when you think you are helpless and your helplessness leads to anger.
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